Milton and Mane
Welcome to Milton and Mane, the City of Milton, Georgia's official podcast—a dynamic space where community connection meets insightful conversation. Whether you're a resident, local business owner, neighboring government official, or a curious listener from afar, this podcast is your gateway to understanding Milton on every level.
Each episode is designed to bring you closer to the heart of our city, offering behind-the-scenes stories that humanize the people who keep Milton running. You'll gain valuable insights into local government operations, discover new opportunities, and hear from the voices that shape our community. Expect to learn about our rich history, stay updated on future developments, and explore the vibrant arts, culture, and sustainability initiatives that make Milton unique.
Join us as we celebrate our community, encourage civic engagement, and share inspiring stories that resonate beyond our city limits. Subscribe today and be part of the conversation that's building a better Milton, one episode at a time.
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Milton and Mane
Building Milton: Hard Times & Tough Choices (Part 2/3)
How did your hometown survive America’s toughest times? This episode uncovers Milton County’s hidden history, from Civil War struggles to the Great Depression. Jeff DuFresne and Lynn Tinley with The Milton Historical Society are back. The two continue to reveal the untold stories of divided loyalties, economic hardships, and the resilience that shaped Milton’s identity. While many assume North Georgia was fully aligned with the Confederacy, Milton County tells a more complicated story—one of reluctant soldiers, struggling families, and a community forced to adapt.
From the devastation of war to the agricultural collapse brought by drought and the boll weevil, Milton’s residents found ways to endure through ingenuity and sheer determination. The episode also explores how financial hardship led to a controversial merger with Fulton County, a decision that still sparks debate today.
To learn more about the Milton Historical Society, visit their website:
https://www.miltonhistoricalsociety-georgia.org/
With the community in mind, this podcast explores the stories, people, and initiatives that make our community unique. Each episode offers insights into local government, highlights Milton's history and future developments, and showcases the vibrant arts, culture, and sustainability efforts shaping our city. Join the conversation, celebrate our community, and discover how we're building a better Milton together.
Do you have an idea for an episode or would like to request a specific topic to be covered? Email Christy Weeks, christy.weeks@miltonga.gov
Learn more about the City of Milton at www.miltonga.gov.
Welcome to Milton and Maine, the official podcast for the city of Milton. We want to bring you closer to the heart of our community through stories that inform, inspire and connect. Each episode offers a behind-the-scenes look at the people, projects and priorities shaping Milton, covering everything from local government and future development to arts, culture, sustainability and public safety. Whether you're a resident, a local business owner or just curious about our city, this is your front row seat to what makes Milton special. Welcome everyone. I'm Christy Weeks, the communications manager for the City of Milton, and today I'm so excited to welcome back Jeff Dufresne and Lynn Tinley from the Milton Historical Society. Jeff and Lynn, it is so great to have you with us again.
Speaker 2:Thank you, great to be here.
Speaker 1:The last time we met, we took a look at the key moments in Georgia's history from about 1752 to 1857-ish, exploring how Georgia was the last admission to the original 13 colonies and other key developments that shaped the foundation of our state. Today we're going to take a look at Georgia's history from the Civil War through the Great Depression. So my first question ready, Ready, here we go. How did Milton County and North Georgia fit into the broader conflict when it comes to the Civil War?
Speaker 3:Well, the first thing that I think is important to understand is that they didn't really necessarily agree with the war. If you will, this area did not want to secede from the Union. In fact, a lot of further, even north here didn't want to. It was really not a plantation economy and there were not enough people to support a war either, so ultimately it was nothing but a hardship. I mean there were not enough people to support a war either, so ultimately it was nothing but a hardship. I mean, a war is a hardship for anyone. But many men had to fight a war they did not agree with. They were conscripted, there was loss of income, you know, women became widowed and had to raise their children together. And I think I said we were not a plantation economy, so there was no benefit to it.
Speaker 3:And ultimately, at the end of the war, if you had fought for the Confederacy and were still alive and wanted to still be a citizen and participate in government, perhaps you had to sign an oath of allegiance to the Union in order to be able to be guaranteed your citizenship. Wow, yeah, and so we studied one for a little bit of a diversion man who lost a leg in the Civil War and we have a letter of his that was written that said I didn't even want to be in the war. Why do I have to? He was not wanting to have to sign that oath of allegiance for whatever reason, I don't know why. But he's like I didn't do it voluntarily. You're telling me that I did voluntarily, but I didn't do it voluntarily because I was conscripted and if I hadn't I would have been punished or killed anyway. So how can you tell me I have to sign this thing? So it was a real hardship on the area.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it sounds like it, and so that kind of bleeds into what life was like for them during the war. But you're talking about women who are now raising their children on their own because their husbands are off to war. Many didn't return, so what was it like for them? For those Well, this area.
Speaker 3:Didn't actually this area see any battles fought, but you remember there were. That's good to know. Yeah, well, there were battles fought. Not very far away though. Right, the Chattahoochee River was well known to the Union troops, so they knew what was going on for sure. Prices of cotton plummeted and they were being pillaged by the Union troops. So even though we didn't fight per se any battles here, they certainly felt the hardship of the war and knew what was going on, and were impacted economically.
Speaker 1:Sure, and everybody was up here just trying to survive in the first place.
Speaker 3:Exactly without a lot of able-bodied men. Yep yep.
Speaker 1:So how did the end of the war and the Reconstruction reshape the economy and daily life in Milton County?
Speaker 3:Yeah, this is an interesting question. When I first thought about this I thought, you know, I've never really read about the Reconstruction era. Here Again, I think some part of it goes back to they were just trying to survive and live and that kind of a thing.
Speaker 3:Did things out of need, out of need exactly, and raise their children and take care of everything. But some of the things that did happen politically if you will were that voting rights were guaranteed to formerly enslaved people. So whereas I kind of get the sense that there was a great deal of harmony in this area prior to Civil War and Reconstruction and that's, I'm sure, an over-exaggeration, but there wasn't the issues that we normally think of when it comes to plantation economies there did develop some tension between previously enslaved and unenslaved, so eventually these differences created two. I don't know how active some of the Ku Klux Klan groups were, but there over the years developed tension between the two groups and again the economic recovery was very slow. The cotton prices, which is really for that cash economy had plummeted and the Roswell Manufacturing Company had been stopped production and everything. So it was a very slow recovery.
Speaker 1:So I'm going to ask this question. I hope nobody judges me on this one, but it's just out of curiosity and it could be very obvious and I'm not putting my pieces together. Explain why In cotton production, or were the locations destroyed overtaken?
Speaker 3:Yeah, so as far as manufacturing companies, which is, who was going to really buy the cotton and use the cotton. Roswell Manufacturing Company was destroyed. They had to rebuild some of that, but cotton prices not just in the area, everywhere plummeted so you just couldn't get the amount of money for the cotton that you used to be able to get before Markets. I mean there was a war, so taking your excess produce to market would have been difficult.
Speaker 2:It was a single economy based on cotton and the price plummeted. There were alternatives. Also, a lot of the freed black people traveled north.
Speaker 1:Yeah, for sure or.
Speaker 2:Saver Haven and then climactic things happened freed black people traveled north to save our haven, and then climactic things happened. There was a huge, huge drought.
Speaker 1:I was wondering how the weather was impacting all of these like the perfect storm coming.
Speaker 2:And it was a perfect super storm because you had this critter called a boll weevil. That totally decimated the cotton industry. It was a perfect super storm because you had this critter called a bull weevil Right that totally decimated the cotton industry. So farmers to survive, they tried to raise other things like corn or hogs or whatever, but everything came to almost a screeching stop after that Agrarian economy had stopped.
Speaker 1:So I'm not going to say I have never heard of a boll weevil. I do not know what it is, Forgive me, Georgia for not knowing what this is, but I grew up in Colorado and I don't know what a boll weevil is.
Speaker 2:Well, it's a little black bug. It looks like a black small teardrop with little legs and it just gets into the cotton fibers and it eats away. It eats it, it'll kill it.
Speaker 1:And where did they originate from?
Speaker 3:Just curious, I'm not sure where they originated from.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's a good question.
Speaker 1:I don't know, stay tuned, I will find out the journey of the boll weevil. I'll get back to you on that. That's interesting, because was there any way for the local farmers to combat it? Yeah, or was it just so?
Speaker 3:everyone. In fact, we in this area had particularly Broadwell he believe it or not developed and patented a boll weevil killing machine. I don't know how it worked, but it fascinated me that he did so. There was one. I don't think it was overly effective, but basically Broadwell and Rucker two of the common names were more than just farmers, they were really inventors, right, and they were working, both working hard to perfect the cotton seed. And by then you have some of the universities Auburn, alabama and then in UGA that are working with everyone to figure out a type of cotton that would be boll weevil resistant. And of course then chemicals come in and they're developing pesticides. So you know, boll weevil was here from, I think, like 1915, I think is when it really started until like 1990, I think. I mean it took a long time.
Speaker 3:That's a lifetime a long time I I've grown a little bit kind of at home and I didn't think I was going to be able to do it. Somebody said you have to get the state to approve it. But you don't anymore, but you used to have to.
Speaker 1:In fact, you can't buy was it for fear of the boll weevil absolutely making a?
Speaker 3:reappearance Absolutely, and so the state would have you monitor. There's something that will collect the boll weevils and you had to tell them if you got a boll weevil, but you don't have to do that anymore, wow.
Speaker 1:Good to know I will not be growing my own cotton regardless. If there's anything to know about me, I am not somebody who grows things. My children did fine Plants, not so much. Okay, back to history, did the crisis of the boll weevil and the challenges with the agricultural community change what crops were grown in the area, or did it push people toward other industries?
Speaker 3:Yes, one of the industries was chicken chicken yes yeah, so apparently a lot of farmers switched to chicken, to yeah, for sure agriculturally. I think they just steered away from cotton and they grew produce and went to hogs and cows.
Speaker 1:Interesting, still very agricultural Fun fact. I did recently learn that Gainesville had made eating fried chicken illegal to use a fork, you had to eat it with your fingers.
Speaker 3:Well, I'm not sure what I'll use that one for.
Speaker 2:Tune into the Milton PD pd page for weird law wednesdays you don't have to wash as many dishes right?
Speaker 1:no, it was. Of course. It was generally in jest and it was more of a pr stunt than anything, but I did learn that.
Speaker 2:So there you go we didn't really have the the soil of the content climate for tobacco, if you will which was a real cash crop just north of us, so we were struggling to find what could fill the gap.
Speaker 1:So tobacco, now that you bring that up, what is that? Perfect climate? Does it need to be a little colder, or is it?
Speaker 2:Cooler slightly different soil type. That's all I know is probably.
Speaker 1:Interesting, and so one more question on that. I'm kind of asking questions off topic here, but tobacco was grown mostly from where, landmarks, where I would know Virginia, virginia.
Speaker 2:Carolinas.
Speaker 1:Okay, all right. See, this is Christy's educational series, catching her up on Georgia history, because she didn't take those classes. So how did, or did they, did the government and agricultural experts respond to help these struggling farmers? Was there any support for them? It was kind of a figure it out on your own.
Speaker 2:You know, on a local level it was really church and your neighbors. It was survival. It was not an organization that I can remember that got in there on a grassroots area. Certainly, the New Deal in 1935, with, as I mentioned, the minimum wages and better work conditions and child labor laws and all those helped a great deal and they were welcomed and they were successful over a period of time and there was also a sense of hope, I believe Even during the Depression. There's a picture of the Milton County Bank and it had a sign on its door a place of safety for your money.
Speaker 1:They went broke. The thought was there. They didn't want to.
Speaker 2:They paid all the depositors off in full before they went out. So there was a belief in the land and where they were and we're going to get through this. Certainly the church and all that played a part in their spiritual revival. So it was bad, it was a test, but clearly, fast forward 150 years it was worth it.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and I would say that it was a very close-knit community. I keep going back to the sparsely populated but you'll see, if you do ancestry work on these people, you'll see how many of the families were intermarried together, not incestuously, but just you see the names again again. So it was a tight, tight community and the government didn't have the kind of aid programs that we think of today. So to Jeff's point, it was the community and the belief that things would get better. You know it's changed but we're going to be fine in faith and everything.
Speaker 1:So that's it. Yeah, so we've started to talk a little bit. We're starting to get up into that Great Depression era and we all know how hard it hit this country. I mean it was devastating. What were its effects on Milton County and the surrounding communities?
Speaker 3:Well for Milton County directly, as Jeff mentioned earlier. They really couldn't afford to operate anymore and so, basically, they merged with Fulton County, as did Campbell County, as Jeff said. I mean, it was to great benefit for them. Ultimately, when you start thinking about public education and road systems and the laws for labor laws and those kinds of things.
Speaker 1:So really that was their solution to survive for the time being was to merge with Fulton County, and you may have already covered this, so forgive me for asking again, but what role did the federal programs, like the New Deal, play in helping this region to recover?
Speaker 2:Infrastructure schools roads.
Speaker 1:You just covered all. I just asked the same question again, didn't I?
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's funny because we don't see the ones like you do in some other places, but they did absolutely work.
Speaker 2:And even the human aspect not abusing children, allowing them to go to school, and limited amount that we were there was abuse and they try to curb that. So it was a good thing.
Speaker 1:It was an external force that was carried on the ground level and it helped set some boundaries and some guidelines and some expectations for people in a time when they were lacking guidance.
Speaker 2:Sure absolutely.
Speaker 1:As we're talking about the merger with Milton County and Fulton County, was anybody upset about it? Or was everybody just at a point in their life where they were welcoming that merger because they needed that infrastructure? Or was there some holdouts out there just not happy about that?
Speaker 2:There are people for it and against it. The people for it wanted more control over the government and development and preserve sort of the bucolic heritage up here. There are people against it because white against black, rich against poor, because Campbell County was was from the south, we were from the north.
Speaker 1:It would dilute the control of our local environment Control was a big, big deal. That's where I was getting, because you have to think that there had to have been people who were against big government even then.
Speaker 2:Absolutely and, as I said, fulton County is bigger than three US states. It's a big territory. It requires a lot of governance and control, consensus building and it was not a homogeneous population. So, yes, there was tension. It's a conversation of reestablishing Milton County now.
Speaker 1:That's where I'd like you to take this. Since you opened that door, there are still those occasional discussions about re-establishing Milton County. So what are the key arguments for and against this idea?
Speaker 2:Well, I think it's the same arguments that prompted the formation of the city of Milton was control over development. What is the character of this place? You drive into Milton and you immediately know it's something different. It's beautiful, there's a consistency of the architecture and all that. So there is a desire to maintain that control. There are resources to be divided up. How do you do that fairly? Jan Jones was, I think, as late as 10 years ago. There was an attempt to resurrect that, but it hasn't met the political will.
Speaker 3:One of the other things is I think there's a law someplace where we can't add any more counties, so they'd have to. Georgia's decided no more counties, so they're either going to have to merge together.
Speaker 1:Georgia has a lot of counties.
Speaker 3:I think there's a. That's a law, isn't it?
Speaker 2:It is a law, and who wants to give up their county Right? No one's going to agree to that, so it's really at a deadlock.
Speaker 1:Interesting. Interesting To be continued on these discussions. Jeff and Lynn, this has been another enlightening conversation. We touched on just a little bit of history, kind of in between the beginning and where we are now and I believe in our next episode. Stay tuned, everybody. We got another one coming. We'll talk more about present day and how Milton became a city in 2006 and kind of go through those processes. So before we close, I'm going to give you guys an opportunity to share how listeners can learn about the Milton Historical Society. I will put your website in the show notes, but happy to have you share anything coming up.
Speaker 2:Well, we're open door. Our lectures are free. Anyone can come. There's a lecture next week on Tuesday. It's usually the second Tuesday of the month at the Milton Library. We try to promote those through regular media as well as our own social media and word of mouth. We get members more from word of mouth than from buying advertising dollars, because people are generally happy. It's a club, so you're admitted to like-minded people that want to learn about the heritage of where they live.
Speaker 1:I love that. I love that. Again, I appreciate you guys being here. I will put the information in the show notes so people can access your information very, very quickly. But for today, that's a wrap for this episode of Milton in Maine.
Speaker 1:And if you enjoyed this discussion, don't forget to subscribe and follow us for this episode of Milton and Maine. And if you enjoyed this discussion, don't forget to subscribe and follow us for more stories about Milton's rich history, vibrant present and exciting future. Remember, if you want to learn more about the city of Milton, be sure to visit our website at MiltonGAgov. Until next time, stay curious and take care. Thanks for listening to Milton and Maine. We hope this episode gave you fresh insights into what makes our city so special. Stay connected and don't miss an episode by subscribing to this podcast on your favorite platform and following us on social media for all updates. And, of course, if you want to learn more about the city, visit us online at wwwmiltongagov for resources, news and upcoming events. Until next time. Thanks for being part of the conversation and we'll see you on the next Milton in Maine.